Montegriffo comments on the question of a 'Spanish Gibraltar'

In a blog post just over a week ago, I asked the question... Can Gibraltarians ever envisage a Spanish Gibraltar?.

My question arose following comments I read in one of Gibraltar's daily newspapers, Panorama online and in my colleague Sancho's blog Tilting at Windmills.

These two articles carried comments attributed to Peter Montegriffo, the former GSD (Gibraltar Social Democrats) minister, who recently gave an interview to the Campo de Gibraltar newspaper, Europa Sur.

In this interview, Peter Montegriffo was quoted as saying that "the time was not ripe for a sovereignty solution" for Gibraltar and added, "adequate conditions must first be created before embarking on sovereignty talks".

Well, this really intrigued me!

When asked, in the Europa Sur interview, if he thought there is a solution to the sovereignty issue, he replied:

"Of course there is.

I have always thought it is possible to find a solution in the context of the European union, applying the democratic principles and of mutual respect that unite us."

In our articles last week, both Sancho and I expressed a curiosity about the basis on which future talks on the sovereignty of Gibraltar could possibly be founded. Sancho put it in a nutshell:

He says that adequate conditions must first be created before embarking on sovereignty talks... but then goes on to say he believes that a future agreement on sovereignty can be reached.

I should add that he fully backs the tripartite process and closer links with the Campo de Gibraltar. However co-operation is one thing – sovereignty is quite another.

So why future talks?

Unless I am wrong, and I frequently am, the Spanish Government’s position is clear – it believes that Gibraltar should be an integral part of the nation and even joint sovereignty would only be a stepping stone on the road to that eventual goal. All the major parties are agreed on that stance.

In contrast the people of Gibraltar have indicated in two referenda that they totally reject any sovereignty deal with Spain. Hence we have two set positions – surrender and no surrender.

If Spain’s ambitions for Gibraltar and Gibraltarians ambitions for the Rock are totally at odds with each other - surely there is nothing to discuss.

Therefore unless Gibraltarians collectively are willing to go along the Spanish route talks can achieve nothing. Indeed you can’t have talks on sovereignty when sovereignty for Gibraltarians isn’t an issue.

Spain, or rather its government, isn’t going to change its stance – so is Gibraltar?

Sancho summarises the situation very well... which is why I was even more curious as to what Montegriffo was up to.

Well... my curiosity was answered... sooner than I thought! Peter Montegriffo got in touch with me and he very kindly clarified (corrected) a number of the points that were quoted, both here and in the other media sources. His comments make for interesting reading.

Anyone who is tired of the usual entrenched positions of "Gibraltar Espanol" on the one hand and "British we are... British we stay" on the other (as I am), and perhaps who is looking for a middle ground or alternatives to these stalemated positions, will be very interested in Peter Montegriffo's views.

In an exchange of emails with me, Peter firstly corrected the Panorama quote:

"In the Europa Sur article, what I actually said was that I personally do not think that the time is right for us to address the sovereignty issue at all. I did not incidentally use the word "ripe" as reported by Panorama."

On the question I raised, about whether Gibraltarians can ever "envisage a Spanish Gibraltar" and my curiosity as to what Montegriffo was up to, he said:

"I can assure you that I do not hold the view (and never have) that Gibraltar should become Spanish. But I do believe we can arrive at a Gibraltarian Gibraltar (namely a micro-State within the European Union), that deals with and neutralises (that does not mean gives in to) the Spanish claim."

Well... that's clear enough... and I for one am very interested in exploring this possibility of a 'micro-state within the European Union' or as others are calling it, 'the Andorran model'.

Following my blog post last week, I also opened a topic (and subsequent Poll) on this subject in Gibraltar News Online forum

When I asked if he would like to comment, either on this blog or in the Forum topic, in the hope of encouraging more debate on this issue, (something I am keen to do), Peter Montegriffo said:

"I am very happy to join any debate but given that no-one in Gibraltar (certainly not myself) is suggesting a Spanish Gibraltar, why run a poll with that question?

That sort of 'enquiry' in my view simply distorts the discussion that should be had about our future. It is not a choice between British or Spanish sovereignty which is what the debate is often reduced to."

Fair comment... and one that I very much agree with. However, in my own defence, I explained that when I created the topic, my intention was precisely to shake people's thinking on the issue of sovereignty... which was raised in the Europa Sur interview.

In our exchange, Montegriffo added:

"But what I have always had in mind is a Gibraltarian Gibraltar, which both Britain and Spain will come to accept.

This is what the poll should be asking and is a more proper reflection of my views.

Not a bad idea Peter! In fact, one that I welcome very much. My intention and hope is the same as Peter's... and that is to encourage and generate debate on these issues... in particular, and indeed as is happening.. to move on from these old, entrenched views.

In the event, that is exactly what is happening in the Forum topic, as subsequent comments have moved the conversation in the direction of a 'micro-state'... discussing, as one poster commented, "thinking out of the box" on the way ahead for Gibraltar.

But I am happy to accept Peter Montegriffo's suggestion for a future poll to encourage debate on this issue... and I have asked him to suggest what the question should be. I am hopefull that he accedes to my request... as his suggestion for a Poll question (and discussion on this point) would make for very interesting debate, I think.

My thanks to Peter Montegriffo, for the courtesy he has extended me to date, in clarifying and expanding on his views.

Montegriffo's future in Gibraltar politics

Since his resignation from Government in February 2000, Peter Montegriffo has officially been out of politics. However, as can be seen from these articles, he does comment on political issues from time to time.

As for the future, Peter has recently been described as "merely biding his time until the present Chief Minister, Peter Caruana, steps down". It is thought that he will then 'throw his hat' into the GSD leadership race that will ensue.

Not wanting to miss the opportunity, whilst I had his attention, I asked Peter, if this is the case... and if it isn't, what exactly is his political agenda for the future?

As I write, I am still awaiting his response... but I have a feeling he may be playing a little coy on this one!

Peter Montegriffo

Peter Montegriffo is a lawyer and partner in Gibraltar law firm Hassans. He was Minister for Trade and Industry, with responsibility for economic development and financial services, in the first GSD Government, (deputy to Peter Caruana, the Chief Minister), between May 1996 and February 2000, when he resigned from politics to 'pursue other interests'.

Can Gibraltarians ever envisage a Spanish Gibraltar?

Can Llanitos... Gibraltarians, ever envisage a Spanish Gibraltar? There's a question to ponder!

Personally, I don't think so. For ANY Gibraltarian, certainly of my generation, the possibility of a Spanish Gibraltar is anathema... it's simply unthinkable!

My question arises following recent comments apparently made by Peter Montegriffo, the former GSD (Gibraltar Social Democrats) minister, in an interview with the Campo de Gibraltar newspaper, Europa Sur.

I tried searching for this interview but was unable to find it in Europa Sur online. I can only assume it was only carried in the offline version.

I did however, find some 'third party' comments on this interview. Gibraltar's Panorama online carried an article on it yesterday and my colleague, Sancho, blogging over at Tilting at Windmills also made some interesting comments.

Peter Montegriffo is a lawyer and partner in Gibraltar law firm Hassans. He was Minister for Trade and Industry, with responsibility for economic development and financial services, in the first GSD Government, (deputy to Peter Caruana, the Chief Minister), between May 1996 and February 2000, when he resigned from politics to 'pursue other interests'.

Whilst Montegriffo comments on political matters from time to time, he has officially been out of politics since his resignation from government. Many however, believe he is merely biding his time until the present Chief Minister, Peter Caruana, steps down. It is thought that he will then 'throw his hat' into the GSD leadership race that will ensue.

In his blog comment, Sancho said:

Given that when the two big beasts of Gibraltar politics, Caruana and Bossano, step down the leadership of the Rock will be in a state of flux, it would be a brave man (or woman) that rules Montegriffo out of the top job. His views should be listened to.

Sancho may be over dramatising this... but he may have a point. Montegriffo certainly seems to have the attention of a few influential people in political circles... and not just in Gibraltar but across the border too. Montegriffo has long been the secretary of 'Mar del Sur', a Spanish socio-cultural association which seeks collaboration between the two sides of the frontier. The group is thought to have links with the PSOE party in Spain.

Anyway... it appears, that in this interview with Europa Sur, Montegriffo said that the time was not ripe for a sovereignty solution. He backs the Tripartite Forum, which he says is "making greater headway to remove the distrust that still exists between those on either side of the frontier". I would agree with him wholeheartedly on that as I also support this view.

Montegriffo, however, then added a surprising and intriguing comment. He said that "adequate conditions must first be created before embarking on sovereignty talks".

Asked if there is a solution to the sovereignty issue, he replied:

"Of course there is.

I have always thought it is possible to find a solution in the context of the European union, applying the democratic principles and of mutual respect that unite us."

Hmmm... well maybe if Spain ever grows up and allows their 'democratic priniciples' to mature... and maybe if they actually start to respect the democratically expressed wishes of a people... exemplified in at least three referenda over the last forty years... this may be so at some time in the future... but then again, pigs may fly!

Moving on... Montegriffo added:

"I think that at present the conditions are not there in Madrid or in Gibraltar to tackle an agreement on this topic, as there is still too much distrust as neighbours.

It will be premature at present to seek a solution, which is not urgent anyway."

Not urgent... no, or desired, at least by me and I am pretty sure, neither is it desired by the vast majority of Gibraltarians!

Sancho, in his post, summarises the situation succinctly:

I am curious by what the former GSD minister says in an interview with Campo de Gibraltar newspaper, Europa Sur. If he is quoted correctly he stated the time is not ripe for a sovereignty solution. He says that adequate conditions must first be created before embarking on sovereignty talks...but then goes on to say he believes that a future agreement on sovereignty can be reached.

I should add that he fully backs the tripartite process and closer links with the Campo de Gibraltar. However co-operation is one thing – sovereignty is quite another.

So why future talks?

Unless I am wrong, and I frequently am, the Spanish Government’s position is clear – it believes that Gibraltar should be an integral part of the nation and even joint sovereignty would only be a stepping stone on the road to that eventual goal. All the major parties are agreed on that stance.

In contrast the people of Gibraltar have indicated in two referenda that they totally reject any sovereignty deal with Spain. Hence we have two set positions – surrender and no surrender.

If Spain’s ambitions for Gibraltar and Gibraltarians ambitions for the Rock are totally at odds with each other - surely there is nothing to discuss.

Therefore unless Gibraltarians collectively are willing to go along the Spanish route talks can achieve nothing. Indeed you can’t have talks on sovereignty when sovereignty for Gibraltarians isn’t an issue.

Spain, or rather its government, isn’t going to change its stance – so is Gibraltar?

Curious Sancho?? You and me both! Curious as to what Montegriffo is up to! But... the question Sancho raises, is an interesting one... one that has been on my mind for some time too.

Frequent readers of my blog will know how I feel about Gibraltar's sovereignty. I have stated it quite clearly at the start of this post. For me... and for many Gibraltarians, at least those of my generation I'm sure, this is not an issue that is 'up for grabs'! I consistently maintain this:

Gibraltar belongs to the People of Gibraltar. It is neither Spain's to claim nor Britain's to give away!

But... Montegriffo's comment and Sancho's understandable question, bring up the issue, as I say, that is often on my mind these days. Will Gibraltar ever envisage the possibility of being Spanish viable?

Montegriffo, in his statement, seems to imply, that whilst conditions may not 'be there' in Madrid or in Gibraltar, to tackle an agreement on sovereignty now... they may be in the future?

Actually, I disagree with him with regards to Madrid. The right 'conditions' certainly seem to me to exist in Madrid. Sancho clearly also sees it this way.

Only last week, the foreign affairs committee in the Spanish 'Congreso' (parliament), in a rare display of unity, the ruling PSOE and the PP opposition parties came together and urged the Spanish government to renew their demands and talks over the sovereignty of Gibraltar. Futhermore, the demand for sovereignty over Gibraltar to be returned to Spain, is officially included in every Spanish legislature! So I cannot agree with Montegriffo on that point.

Now... as for Gibraltar... the right conditions are certainly not there now... but will they ever be??

I think most Gibraltarians of my generation would not think so. As I say, the question is anathema. Gibraltarians have been harrassed and bullied for decades. Many experienced the 12th 'siege' when the frontier was closed in 1969 and commercial, military and air travel restrictions were imposed on the community for the best part of twenty years. This dictatorial behaviour by Spain, which lasted long after Franco's death, has left huge scars on generations of Gibraltarians, who I may add, are little pacified by Spain's continued belligerent critical attitude and demands towards Gibraltar even today. A very strange policy for consistent Spanish governments to pursue and one that, only in recent years, has seen any softening, following the Cordoba Accord and the ongoing Tripartite Forum process.

Since the border was reopened in 1986, however, younger generations of Gibraltarians have been enjoying a different experience. These days there is wide cross border interaction, for shopping, travel and many other leisure activities. Young Gibraltarians are mixing more and more with their counterparts across the border, in a way which would have been unthinkable some years back... and of course, impossible through the late 70's and early 80's. Some Gibraltarians have even started choosing to go to Spanish universities, as opposed to the United Kingdom, (as has always been traditional), for their further education.

Of course, their new experience does not necessarily mean they are more easily disposed towards Spain, but I do sense a slight shift in the traditionally entrenched views.

Whether this means younger generations may be more disposed to look at the possibility of a Spanish Gibraltar, I would doubt it. But... if the penny were to finally drop with Spanish politicians... to take a more seductive, perhaps more mature and sensible approach to their politics towards Gibraltar... who might say what could be the result.

Are these the 'conditions' that Montegriffo has in mind for possible future talks? Quite possibly.

Generations of Gibraltarians have consistently said an emphatic NO to Spain in referendum after referendum. IF... (and this is a very big IF) Spain were to take a more relaxed approach, a more conciliatory and friendly... perhaps even more helpful approach towards Gibraltar, maybe even taking away those hateful intrusive border restrictions.... who knows what result a future referendum on the sovereignty of Gibraltar might throw up??

During my lifetime... I have seen the longed for but unimaginable happen. The collapse of Communism and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The taking down of the Berlin Wall. The end of sectarian killing and the coming of a (hopefully lasting) peace in Northern Ireland. I still live in hope of similar in the Middle East, Gaza and Israel.

A Spanish Gibraltar? Well... it's simply unthinkable, undesired... and complete anathema to me and my generation and all older surviving generations. Will this remain the same for future generations?

Perhaps... this is what the wily political lawyer is getting at! Whose to say what's round the corner?

For myself, I hope Spain continues their belligerent stance, pissing off all Gibraltarians... old and young, as they have been doing for centuries! Gibraltarians can live with that... we've been doing it for years. The alternative, at least for me... doesn't bear thinking about... and I very much hope the younger generations of Gibraltarians continue to see it this way... in perpetuity!

Update - 22nd March 2009 16:40:

Readers interested in this topic, may be interested to view/participate in this Poll I've set up, following a request from Forum member:

Discussion Forum > Poll: Will Gibraltarians ever envisage a Spanish Gibraltar?

You will need to be a Registered Member in the Forum to participate. Registering is easy and a simple process that only takes about 5 minutes of your time.

Caruana between a 'Rock' and a hard place

A strongly worded editorial in VOX News today is highly critical of Gibraltar's Chief Minister Peter Caruana, accusing him of having made a "boorish gesture which all loyal Gibraltarians will find offensive"!

VOX is referring to an apparent 'snub', when the Chief Minister (and "the City's so-called 'non-political' Mayor", Momy Levy), reportedly, refused an official invitation to join the Princess Royal's welcoming party at the airport, on her arrival on the Rock on Wednesday afternoon.

VOX says "Caruana's boorishness will not be forgotten; and that means not by at least 90% of the electorate"!

The VOX editorial goes on to say this "deliberate discourtesy to the daughter of Queen Elizabeth will not distract from the warmth of the community's welcome to Princess Anne", and adds:

"The loutish behaviour of two of the Rock's most senior representatives will not have gone unnoticed."

As I'm sure you are aware, Princess Anne's visit to the Rock of Gibraltar has stirred up Spanish politicians into their usual lather... often described idiotically in my opinion, as a 'diplomatic row'!

A few weeks ago, following the announcement of Princess Anne's visit, Angel Lossada, the Spanish Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, telephoned Denise Holt, the British Ambassador in Spain, to express Spain’s 'annoyance' at the two-day visit.

A Spanish Foreign Office spokesman at the time commented:

"The Secretary of State told the ambassador the visit was inopportune with regard to the sensibilities of the Spanish people."

Jose Ignacio Landaluce, a deputy who sits on the Spanish parliament’s foreign affairs commission, said:

"The visit of a member of the British Royal Family to Gibraltar shows their total support for the sovereignty of this British colony.

This is something to which we are totally against. It is an affront to Spain."

Mr Landaluce, from the conservative Popular Party, said the visit was unfortunate at a time when relations between Spain, Britain and Gibraltar had improved in recent years.

A number of other Spanish politicians also queued up and jumped on their favourite band wagon 'tub thumping' their tongues incoherently, apparently 'infuriated' by the Royal visit.

I've already posted what I think of all this 'tosh' here.

Needless to say, Mr Caruana's apparent 'snub' has been welcomed by one of Gibraltar's most vehement critics. As VOX describes him, "the Spanish rabble-rousing PSOE Senator Jose Carracao" is reported as saying Mr Caruana "has taken an intelligent position".

VOX however, disagrees. They say "observers believe" that "it will - and should - cost him (Caruana) the knighthood to which he so longingly aspires". VOX also believe it will also have cost him "considerable support among members of his own GSD (party)", adding that all Gibraltar "remains determinedly British and loyal to the Crown and all it stands for".

Plea for silence

VOX explains that "those who know how tortuously Caruana's political mind works" will be divided on "the reasoning behind his decision to shun the royal arrival".

They do point out, however, that the Chief Minister did welcome Princess Anne at Casemates yesterday and accompanied her on a highly successful and excitable 'walkabout' through Main Street, but, VOX, returning to their 'snub' accusation say "some argue that it was a gesture to molify Spain, whose protests about the visit have been as loud as Caruana's responses have been silent".

VOX also offer another possible reason for Mr Caruana's 'snub' to Princess Anne. They argue that "others believe that he resents attending any ceremony in which the Governor, Sir Robert Fulton, has the principal role".

At this stage I'm wondering who exactly those 'observers' mentioned earlier are, who these 'others' are and who 'those who know' are... if not VOX themselves... but anyway, be that as it may, journalistic licence maybe!

The VOX editorial goes on to say they did ask for an explanation from No 6 (the Chief Minister's Office) but that "no official explanation of the pair's behaviour was forthcoming". They explain though, that the Chief Minister's Press Officer, (my old rowing chum) Francis Cantos, "urged the Editor of VOX not to mention his boss's slight to Princess Anne"! Mr Cantos "promised to 'find out' the reason" for the supposed 'snub'. In a somewhat haughty tone, which I must say seems to firmly place my old friend, the esteemed Press Officer, in uncomfortable hot water, VOX added that "he had not replied to our query at the time of going to press".

(By the way... yes I know, 'friends in high places' eh? Hardly... but that does not make me or this blog... in any way biased, one way or other! Let's just be perfectly clear about that... I wouldn't be publishing this at all if I was now would I?? No!)

VOX conclude that "where Caruana may have presented a chill response to the royal visitor... the genuine warmth of the community's welcome was apparent throughout her visit". Indeed it was and readers can see a full report, including picturs of the Princes Royal and Mr Caruana's 'walkabout' through the streets of Gibraltar here.

It seems to me, Mr Caruana can't win. What with trying to balance his diplomatic stance with Spain and the UK, especially in the context of the Tripartite Forum Process, and in the face of this strong criticism.... which basically sees him in effect bowing to the wishes of Carracao and his howling pack!

In concluding my comment tonight, I will add that I do not, for one second, agree with VOX's somewhat exagerrated guesswork, believing that 90% of Gibraltarians will view Caruana's decision not to greet Princess Anne personally at the airport, as a deliberate 'snub' to the Princess Royal, for whatever reason... but nevertheless a significant proportion undoubtedly will... and I feel for Caruana for it. He is undoubtedly... between a 'Rock' and a hard place!

Images Credit: Images courtesy of ToRoMedia Gibraltar